Lol! It seems that I have been banned from Fetlife’s Kinbaku group for asking moderators, D6_M and Faviola_Llervu, some direct questions after they claimed the rather curious wrap placement in the photo below was acceptable. I quote Faviola_Llervu “The example is fine for the DVD’s stated goal of demonstrating ties” and the exchange between DM_6 and myself:
Me: “My question was “Is this example is very poor and not to be emulated. Am I wrong?””
DM_6: “The short answer is yes”
With such blind defence of a placement that was obviously a mistake by the maestro, I felt I had to challenge it and qualify it. I am always prepared to be proved wrong. The worst that can happen is that I can learn. The questions that got me banned were:
a) Is the left lower wrap in a potentially risky position?
b) Is it aesthetic?
c) Would you teach this tie with such a degree of asymmetry?
d) Would you approve a tie with this degree of asymmetry done by a student of yours?
I maintain the wrap placement on the left is both poor and ugly (see front view photo below). The lower left wrap appears to be in the danger area for many people. IMHO, both wraps should have equal gaps and be placed at the same height. I maintain this is as critical as correct tension. For most people, I assert the closer wraps on the right are better placed. Butt-kicking would be involved if one of my students had produced this on anything other than a first try and Osada-san would have kicked mine if I had done so. He would check the rope marks and if they were not on top of each other after several TK sessions he would grumble.
The first time they gave me a whole load of waffle (see below) but dodged the question, as they did in another thread when I asked D6_M to explain what deeper purpose he claimed for Marai’s wrist tie beyond support and how he managed to get downwards pressure on his TK’s wrist tie. Bizarrely, in response, the verbose and anonymous GroupBot posted an entirely irrelevant and lengthy warning about off topic posts and advertising. The posts were assessing a Japanese tie in a Japanese tutorial by a Japanese nawashi…erh, how much more on topic is it possible to be in the so-called Kinbaku Group?? None of my products or services were even hinted at! It seems that if they can’t answer a question, they close the thread and/or ban you. Cleary my sin is challenging them on practical matters and asking awkward questions that require more than academic knowledge to answer. I know quite a few others who are no longer in the group, having jumped or been pushed, due to this behaviour.
Their defence, for what appears to be a regrettable blooper in an otherwise excellent tutorial, was saying everyone is individual (so individual that it takes that sort of asymmetry to demonstrate it?), it depends on context (umm, it’s a tutorial!), the intent (to teach the tie properly?) and it is not meant to be a blue-print (no, but something approximating to an examplary tie might be good!). They claimed that the 100% differential in gap was “minutae” which to me is indicative of their level of practical knowledge. The Emperor’s New Clothes syndrome and, it appears, having learned most of what they know from books and videos with little or no first-hand tuition from Japanese sensei means that they are unable to see this is a very poor example. That said, I would never wish to denigrate the massive contributions they have made with their translations of Japanese material. They make an excellent academic research team. If they had a more open attitude, much could be contributed to the community by combining this with the experience of those with more practical experience and the benfit of in-depth 1-2-1 teaching by the sensei themselves. There is only so much that can be learned from translating video and written tutorials compared with many hours hands-on guidance by the masters themselves. Of course, one can always gleen additional information from tutorials and performance videos, however basic, regardless of skill, if one is observant and applies what ome knows.
I’m not knocking Marai Masato. There’s some genius stuff in the tutorial and I love his style. I merely wished to point out that if one does not have an experienced and critical eye, it is possible to get the wrong impresion or pick up bad habits by slavishly following every example. Being Japanese does not make them infallible uber-sensei 🙂 Just like western tutorials, they are a mixed bag made by human beings who, however great, make mistakes and have off-days. Then, there is the inevitability of Sod’s Law when one needs to produce a perfect example and the fact that the blooper won’t be noticed until it is too late…cameras? Don’tcha luv ’em?!
Thus, I propose open and honest critiques, rather than nobody mentioning the emperor’s nudity. In this way, the less experienced will know what is best practice and will have nuances they might not otherwise appreciate explained, e.g. the cunning way Marai carefully stretches the skin up under the top wrap and provides lift and stretch with the lower wrap to fine tune an instant breast lift. Watch the TK tutorial in ‘How to Bind’ and you will see what I mean 😉
This is my original post:
What can we learn from tutorials?
by Esinem 2 days ago
After some study of Marai Masato’s ‘How to bind’, I question how much of use can be learned from studying such material without a highly critical eye? Such tutorials are inevitably very superficial, since the complexities of ties like the tk are dismissed in minutes and there appear to be some very poor examples, unless I misunderstand due to a lack of Japanese. Please tell me Marai is telling us this tk is a pig’s ear on one side but good on the other here (grab from final bit of 1st tk) or there is some rational explanation?! IMHO, this example is very poor and not to be emulated. Am I wrong?
I do not wish to throw the baby out with the bath water, there is much to learned but we need to know if errors exist.
What tutorials do people recommend that show excellence throughout?
Responses (23 of 23)
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nawajunkie: 2 days ago | report
Video tutorials, like the ones that Arisue Go made in Kinbaku – mind and techniques II would be my suggestions, but I still prefer live educations like the one offered at Osada ryu dojo’s
Faviola_Llervu: 2 days ago | report
Lots can be learned from such videos without a highly critical eye.
These kinds of basic how-to videos (or books) are guides to show the process of tying, with details given in approximations with the understanding that the viewer/reader will be using their own judgement when applying it to their own partners.
Also, the images aren’t blueprints. It’s understood that differences in partner’s shape, size, abilities, limitations and preferences will change the tying, so the the viewer is not expected to make their own tying look exactly like the video image. So basic instruction will remain useful whether or not a video lives up to someone’s idealized perfect placement or not.
To paraphrase from the intro to Marai’s advanced book/DVD: This model isn’t your partner. This book is intended as a guide. Use discretion.
Third, the purpose of a basic video (as in the case of this Marai video) is to help even beginners learn basics so that they can get started tying to have fun doing SM play. So I think to successfully use videos like these, all one needs is to pay attention to the video’s advice/guidance, to follow the steps and practice with consideration for one’s partner.
My recommendation is try a video and see if you find it useful. And if you don’t like it (for whatever reason), then try a different one.
Of course, we all appreciate that much is individual. However, I believe this is an illustration that we should not emulate slavishly or too literally and accept everyone makes mistakes. However, I learned a lot about breast enhancement with rope from this tutorial.
My question was “Is this example is very poor and not to be emulated. Am I wrong?”
@esinem The short answer is yes, But there’s some qualifications to that: Much of that depends on your ability to build break down what you’re seeing in the video. You use for example:
The wrist wraps on the Marai video being for support of arms. I could see why one who knows the OS TK3 well would see it that way. I have watched Mark DV8 tie that very well and could see how one could interrupt it. However, when you’re able to read and understand what’s being said, you realize it’s not case, but if you don’t have that information it’s entirely possible to think that. No one is entirely wrong, no one entirely right, its a matter of perspective and what you can do with your partner.
Faviola_Llervu: 1 day ago | report
The example is fine for the DVD’s stated goal of demonstrating ties so that even first-time tiers can complete them.
For an advanced tier, or for someone already invested in detailed learning in order to progress to a high level, then this video probably won’t satisfy, but there’s no reason to expect it would. And there’s no reason to take an image stripped of context and assume errors just because it doesn’t match someone’s all-purpose correct ideal. That just ends up running everyone around in circles.
And just to repeat that the images aren’t meant to be an blueprint of what a viewer is meant to emulate, Marai even writes in the description for this video series, “Of course the woman and the person tying are different, so faithful reproduction is impossible.”
I think a newbie would be better served by Arisue Go’s DVD and Book in English on Jagoya.com. Marai I have only suggested to riggers with some advanced skill like Lotus Lilly and Mataleo. It’s always better to get personalized instruction as you can do alternative steps. But not everyone has that advantage and that hopefully will change.
I am curious as to why you believe the wrap positions are acceptable and should be emulated? I can’t think of any reason, situation or person where such obvious and ugly asymmetry might be justified excluding avoiding some injury but it seems odd to select a unlikely exception to demonsrate to newbies
You seem to imply I am drawing all the wrong conclusions about this and the support function of the wrist tie. Please substantiate your assertions so we can all be wiser.
PS I wasn’t asking about level of tutorial but about exemplary practice
Faviola_Llervu: 1 day ago | report
I never said they should be emulated.
I’ve replied twice that the images in basic instruction materials are not meant to be copied precisely. They simply are guides to help a reader/viewer through the steps of tying. Therefore obsessing over minutiae in rope placement in such a guide makes no sense.
You seem to imply I am drawing all the wrong conclusions about this and the support function of the wrist tie. Please substantiate your assertions so we can all be wiser.
I’ve been providing quotes across a few threads by makers of how-to guides which tell readers/viewers how to use the material and what to expect from it and various comments and advice, yet you keep posting as if nothing is being said about it.
PS I wasn’t asking about level of tutorial but about exemplary practice
Intended audience, level of instruction and stated purpose of work are directly relevant to evaluating a how-to book/video/article.
If you don’t like the look of the tying in a video, then that’s your opinion and that’s fine. Don’t use it and don’t recommend it. However, there’s no benefit in starting yet another discussion in this group (third in two weeks) just to keep beating your hobbyhorse bemoaning the inadequacies of everyone else’s instruction.
It’s nice to see exemplary practice, and it’s good to encourage people to share videos/books they like. But there’s more to many how-to materials than just in-depth analysis of the mechanical placement of rope. You’ve been open about the possibility of misunderstanding due to lack of Japanese. I suggest you use that and reserve judgement until you know what the maker of a how-to book/video/etc. is trying to communicate to you through that work.
Lord_Ramirez: 1 day ago | report
Also by seeing Murai, Go, Mai, even Hayami, training videos one gets a more rounded approach to what it means to do kinbaku in a very Japanese way because you are getting Japanese source material. In essence you take from them each different approach, and then examine both points that are common, and those that diverge. Then in the end you take what works best for you, which then forms your path in kinbaku.